He was at most 21 and you may possibly young than whenever his daughter Joanna came to be. She might was in fact the earliest of all the people he fathered from the his individuals mistresses.

John was born in December 1167

1187 Summer - John within the France when Chateauroux had been besieged 1187 Summer 23 - truce 1188 Jan. 30 - Henry efficiency to The united kingdomt, maybe that have John inside the pull 1188 Summer - Henry sends John back to , crosses off 1189 June a dozen - John during the Le People's whenever disarmed because of the Henry's acquisition, following John fled or are provided aside to own protection 1189 July six - Henry We dies into the France 1189 Aug. 12 - Richard will bring John returning to The united kingdomt having your 1189 Aug. 30 - John hitched to help you Isabelle out of Gloucester at Marlebridge 1189 September. step 3 - Richard crowned within Westminster Abbey 1189 Oct. - Richard directs John toward Wales in order to subdue the fresh edgy Welsh 1190 Feb. - John summoned to and you may pushed on the oath to not ever place legs on the The united kingdomt for three age 1190 Summer - Richard continues crusade [John vacations his oath] For the objectives, it’s considered that 1st period, therefore the extremely likely time for Joanna to own been formulated, is the 1187-9 period. 1187 - John spends very nearly the entire year from inside the France 1188 - John may have returned to The united kingdomt inside the January, however, of the summer is sent back into France, in which the guy seemingly have stayed 1189 - John is apparently when you look at the France January - August, returning to England inside August in preparation getting their relationship on 30 Aug. In the event that John made don't unrecorded productivity so you're able to England, it appears that the guy spent in the 80% from their date regarding January 1187 up to their marriage, in France . He was will ultimately considering the State out-of Mortain, during the (prior to Richard's coronation).

These guidance, because of the period and fact that Joanna was produced in order to England from France inside the 1203 to ABD'de evlenmek isteyen Guyanese kadД±n own their matrimony to Llywelyn, lends credence towards the proven fact that Joanna and her mother was in fact from French/Norman supply.

Offered and additionally John's better-identified philandering during this time, there is apparently of many candidates for the part regarding mother of Joanna!

My past article offered every piece of information one Paget revealed that they was Clemence de Dauntsey, who married Nicholas de- Verdun. I considered that this was the fresh new Nicholas and you can Clementia so you’re able to whom Henry 111 provided this new custody away from Susanna (because good hostage) during the 1228. After yet another enough time lookup yet not, I am able to look for zero shade regarding a good Clemence de- Dauntsey for the the fresh new information. I did so pick yet not, brand new advice of 1 genealogist whom obviously stated it…’ In my opinion that we (the newest genealogists) established there is no eg person given that Clemence de Dauntsey. One to personality of the spouse of Nicholas de Verdun try a error of the Paget!’

I’m prepared to accept that achievement, as the further study of information of your own next Clemence turned-out way more productive.

Normandy

Clemence ce Boteler came to be on 1175 inside Steeple Lavington, Wiltshire. Her father is actually Philip le Boteler (produced circa 1150).

Clemence le Boteler hitched Nicholas de- Verdun when you look at the 1202 (their second partner shortly after his matrimony so you’re able to Joan Fitz Piers. Notice, so it marriage isn’t shown) from the Alton, Staffordshire and additionally they had one child, Rohese de Verdun who was simply created in the 1203 otherwise 1205 (passed away. Feb 1247).

In the event that, in fact, Joanna is the consequence of a liaison between John and you will Clemence le Boteler (that would had been old doing fourteen-fifteen at that time), it would was very difficult into Le Boteler members of the family to obtain the right spouse for Clemence. In fact particular a decade violation just before a beneficial ily?) that have a trusting English nobleman and you can assets holder, Nicholas de Verdun. Making aside for the moment the possibility that Nicholas had dropped in love with brand new 27 year-old Clemence and you will wished to wed their particular, it would were very important to John to include Clemence which have particular possessions off her own in order that she turned a far more glamorous award getting her husband to be.